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	<title>Comments on: A snapshot of Search and Rescue</title>
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	<description>Wellington-biased back-country tramping in New Zealand</description>
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		<title>By: Mike McGavin</title>
		<link>http://www.windy.gen.nz/index.php/archives/359/comment-page-1#comment-7997</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike McGavin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 Aug 2009 04:30:04 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Hi Robb.  Thanks for the thoughts.

The worst I&#039;ve heard (and again it was the Tongariro [Alpine] Crossing has been a couple of people trying to walk it with high heels and Glassons bags -- that was a couple of girls a friend of mine walked past when she was doing some geological field work in the area.

I think it&#039;s been in the news that DOC&#039;s been specifically trying to re-brand it as the Tongariro Alpine Crossing for exactly this reason of people having a wrong impression.  I&#039;ve only walked it once, in conditions with some icy winds in the exposed parts and perhaps 20 metres visibility in a few places thanks to low cloud. Every so often the cloud would lift and you&#039;d suddenly realise there were another 50+ people in various parts of the surroundings, and there must have been some people who were feeling the cold judging by the sorts of things people were wearing. It was fine with gear to keep the wind off, but I came away with an honest impression that one day an unexpected blizzard&#039;s going to come along and catch out 50 unprepared people, and that&#039;s what it&#039;ll take before anything&#039;s really done about it. I think part of the problem is that it&#039;s simply &lt;em&gt;so&lt;/em&gt; popular that people factor it in as a thing to do weeks in advance, allow a single day without a backup plan, and then take risks they really shouldn&#039;t take if that day happens to be uncertain.

Sometimes I&#039;ve wondered about the ethics of tourist bus companies that drop people off unprepared, but I&#039;ve also heard counter-claims that there&#039;s very little the drivers can do apart from tell people as clearly as it&#039;s possible to do so that they shouldn&#039;t go, and then those people go anyway. Maybe there&#039;s a English-as-a-second-language problem going on, but it seems to me that there&#039;s far more to it than just that. Just my thoughts, of course, and doubtless those in DOC and elsewhere also think a lot about this kind of thing.

And yeah, DOC signs are just random sometimes, and it doesn&#039;t seem as if there&#039;s a very objective system between different conservencies or even within the same ones. I pity the person who has to estimate a time, though, when there are so many variables.  Sometimes I&#039;ve wondered if it&#039;d make sense to remove the times altogether, and replace them with an objective value that represents a combination of distance, terrain and (maybe) interesting stopping points, which people can then multiply by something else that represents their ability and intentions and group size to get a time.  It&#039;d could make the whole thing very confusing, though, and not everyone is that great at maths.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Robb.  Thanks for the thoughts.</p>
<p>The worst I&#8217;ve heard (and again it was the Tongariro [Alpine] Crossing has been a couple of people trying to walk it with high heels and Glassons bags &#8212; that was a couple of girls a friend of mine walked past when she was doing some geological field work in the area.</p>
<p>I think it&#8217;s been in the news that DOC&#8217;s been specifically trying to re-brand it as the Tongariro Alpine Crossing for exactly this reason of people having a wrong impression.  I&#8217;ve only walked it once, in conditions with some icy winds in the exposed parts and perhaps 20 metres visibility in a few places thanks to low cloud. Every so often the cloud would lift and you&#8217;d suddenly realise there were another 50+ people in various parts of the surroundings, and there must have been some people who were feeling the cold judging by the sorts of things people were wearing. It was fine with gear to keep the wind off, but I came away with an honest impression that one day an unexpected blizzard&#8217;s going to come along and catch out 50 unprepared people, and that&#8217;s what it&#8217;ll take before anything&#8217;s really done about it. I think part of the problem is that it&#8217;s simply <em>so</em> popular that people factor it in as a thing to do weeks in advance, allow a single day without a backup plan, and then take risks they really shouldn&#8217;t take if that day happens to be uncertain.</p>
<p>Sometimes I&#8217;ve wondered about the ethics of tourist bus companies that drop people off unprepared, but I&#8217;ve also heard counter-claims that there&#8217;s very little the drivers can do apart from tell people as clearly as it&#8217;s possible to do so that they shouldn&#8217;t go, and then those people go anyway. Maybe there&#8217;s a English-as-a-second-language problem going on, but it seems to me that there&#8217;s far more to it than just that. Just my thoughts, of course, and doubtless those in DOC and elsewhere also think a lot about this kind of thing.</p>
<p>And yeah, DOC signs are just random sometimes, and it doesn&#8217;t seem as if there&#8217;s a very objective system between different conservencies or even within the same ones. I pity the person who has to estimate a time, though, when there are so many variables.  Sometimes I&#8217;ve wondered if it&#8217;d make sense to remove the times altogether, and replace them with an objective value that represents a combination of distance, terrain and (maybe) interesting stopping points, which people can then multiply by something else that represents their ability and intentions and group size to get a time.  It&#8217;d could make the whole thing very confusing, though, and not everyone is that great at maths.</p>
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		<title>By: Robb</title>
		<link>http://www.windy.gen.nz/index.php/archives/359/comment-page-1#comment-7939</link>
		<dc:creator>Robb</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 08 Aug 2009 21:30:13 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Kia ora Mike,
 I think there is something to that idea. While I have strong views in favour of personal responsibility, solo travel in wild places, ect., I think there does tend to remain a certain nonchalant &quot;she&#039;ll be right&quot; attitude in approaching or promoting back country travel within New Zealand. I commented here before about my shock the first time I did the Tongariro crossing in reverse and came across the days mass of tourists coming the other way. Many dressed in tee shirts blue jeans and sneakers complaining about the &quot;walk&quot;. I still think that is an accident waiting to happen. Of course it is a fine line between promoting the outdoors as a money making tourist operation for New Zealand, and letting potential users know the real risks.  Again personal responsibility plays a role, and my suggestion would be anyone heading into the back country, or Great Walks researches it thouroughly and makes sure their level of skill and experience matches the choice. 
 My tramping mate John and I are always amazed after years in the Ruahine at the relative inconsistincies of the signs DOC puts out. I have learned to ignore them completely and use my own history as to how long it will take me to travel somewhere. My point is even in that sort of country someone can think it is a  3 hours &quot;walk&quot; somewhere and end up getting into some pretty serious country. Thanks for the video, pretty stunning country we live in!
Cheers,
Robb</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Kia ora Mike,<br />
 I think there is something to that idea. While I have strong views in favour of personal responsibility, solo travel in wild places, ect., I think there does tend to remain a certain nonchalant &#8220;she&#8217;ll be right&#8221; attitude in approaching or promoting back country travel within New Zealand. I commented here before about my shock the first time I did the Tongariro crossing in reverse and came across the days mass of tourists coming the other way. Many dressed in tee shirts blue jeans and sneakers complaining about the &#8220;walk&#8221;. I still think that is an accident waiting to happen. Of course it is a fine line between promoting the outdoors as a money making tourist operation for New Zealand, and letting potential users know the real risks.  Again personal responsibility plays a role, and my suggestion would be anyone heading into the back country, or Great Walks researches it thouroughly and makes sure their level of skill and experience matches the choice.<br />
 My tramping mate John and I are always amazed after years in the Ruahine at the relative inconsistincies of the signs DOC puts out. I have learned to ignore them completely and use my own history as to how long it will take me to travel somewhere. My point is even in that sort of country someone can think it is a  3 hours &#8220;walk&#8221; somewhere and end up getting into some pretty serious country. Thanks for the video, pretty stunning country we live in!<br />
Cheers,<br />
Robb</p>
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