Comments on: Topo50 anomolies http://www.windy.gen.nz/index.php/archives/446 Crawling is more fun when it's windy Mon, 06 Sep 2010 09:29:09 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.0 By: Mike McGavin http://www.windy.gen.nz/index.php/archives/446/comment-page-1#comment-10713 Mike McGavin Tue, 09 Mar 2010 07:54:43 +0000 http://www.windy.gen.nz/?p=446#comment-10713 Hi Robb. Thanks for the local knowledge and good points. In the back of my mind I'm hoping that the new systems LINZ has will make it much easier to create updated maps on a whim. I guess I am now coming to wonder if they are very bad errors given what you've said and what I've heard and having let the thoughts roll over a few times in my head. I notice on Stuff that today's Manawatu Standard <a href="http://www.stuff.co.nz/3422144" rel="nofollow">published an update</a> where one of the Manawatu Tramping & Skiing Club (I wish they'd call it by its correct name) members believes a SAR operation 6 weeks ago was directly related to a map error. As a side thing, it's interesting to read the final line in that article, which notes that LINZ has an arrangement with DOC to have DOC review new map editions prior to publication. This could be good as long as DOC has qualified staff on hand to comment, but I also hope it doesn't lead to situations where DOC asks for legitimately represented features to be removed, such as structures they'd prefer people didn't know were there, which has been a tendency of some circles in DOC in the past. Ideally the LINZ maps should be as accurate a representation as possible, or otherwise where do you draw the line with people complaining about features and roads being shown on their private property? Hi Robb. Thanks for the local knowledge and good points. In the back of my mind I’m hoping that the new systems LINZ has will make it much easier to create updated maps on a whim.

I guess I am now coming to wonder if they are very bad errors given what you’ve said and what I’ve heard and having let the thoughts roll over a few times in my head. I notice on Stuff that today’s Manawatu Standard published an update where one of the Manawatu Tramping & Skiing Club (I wish they’d call it by its correct name) members believes a SAR operation 6 weeks ago was directly related to a map error.

As a side thing, it’s interesting to read the final line in that article, which notes that LINZ has an arrangement with DOC to have DOC review new map editions prior to publication. This could be good as long as DOC has qualified staff on hand to comment, but I also hope it doesn’t lead to situations where DOC asks for legitimately represented features to be removed, such as structures they’d prefer people didn’t know were there, which has been a tendency of some circles in DOC in the past. Ideally the LINZ maps should be as accurate a representation as possible, or otherwise where do you draw the line with people complaining about features and roads being shown on their private property?

]]> By: Robb http://www.windy.gen.nz/index.php/archives/446/comment-page-1#comment-10691 Robb Thu, 04 Mar 2010 08:06:43 +0000 http://www.windy.gen.nz/?p=446#comment-10691 Kia ora Mike, No one should head into NZ back country on only the basis of having a map to go by. Like any preparations, planning, and gathering of gear, it does not take much to ring DOC, or stop in, or find someone well traveled in a particular area, and simply inquire as to conditions or changes to tracks, routes, ect. Having written that and read the article highlighting the mistakes, it can no doubt be misleading to the unwary user to think that ahead lies a track, when there is not, or a track (route) marked as maintained is not. Again, individuals have to take responsibility, but there is no reason to send poeple into the bush with two strikes against them, as I see it. Some of the errors, in my view, are not of particular concern. For example the route off the ridge on Parks Peak down to Barlow NOT being included. Well not such a big deal really. For years there was an orange marker the only identifier of what was then a very rough track down, now there is a sign there I believe. My point being it is not going to interupt anyones plans other than discovering a track down to the river far before Parks Peak hut. There is also reference to a track from Iron Gate to Triangle going up into the bush, then down to the river and up to Triangle being incorrect. I have to write that is actually very correct. One goes upriver to the first creek, then up a marked rough track up, then up and over a steep spur back down to the river. Then up river 20 minutes or so to Triangle. Up river all the way takes one into gorge territory I would not want to get into, and reporting a track that is correct as being wrong is also not good information sharing. Two possible errors that would concern me is a track in the Ikwatea area as being maintained when it is not, and has not been in years. That is perhaps some of the more remote and rough areas in the park, very bluffy, and the river with a few very large water falls. Going into such terrain thinking one will find a track, and not, and perhaps not having the skills, or equipment to cope is danger. Again I know people should be responsible for such things, but we know at times they simply are not. The other big concern I see is calling the route from Sunrise to Top Maropea a track. It is not a track. My concern there is the many many groups of school, clubs, tourists, ect, that tramp up to Sunrise and generally venture no further. Looking on a map and seeing a nice solid line leading from Sunrise to Top Maropea I feel could easily lead to a false sense of security. To be sure, on a nice day it would present little problem, and be one of the most enjoyable hour plus high walks in the Ruahine, if not the North Island. But as someone who has crossed that saddle 30 plus times I know that rare days are fine there, and on the wrong day visibility can be zero, and the wind deadly. Many times I have waited it out an extra day at Top Maropea to cross the saddle, or vice versa at Sunrise. In any case, best to get the maps corrected as quickly as is possible. Myself, well when I get back to it, I have many old haunts to visit and I think my old maps here will serve well for a bit yet. But if I were to venture into new terrain I will get a new map, check with DOC, and most important find out from either people I know whom have been there, or can direct to me someone, and get the real dope as it were. Happy tramping Mike. Cheers, Robb Kia ora Mike,
No one should head into NZ back country on only the basis of having a map to go by. Like any preparations, planning, and gathering of gear, it does not take much to ring DOC, or stop in, or find someone well traveled in a particular area, and simply inquire as to conditions or changes to tracks, routes, ect.
Having written that and read the article highlighting the mistakes, it can no doubt be misleading to the unwary user to think that ahead lies a track, when there is not, or a track (route) marked as maintained is not. Again, individuals have to take responsibility, but there is no reason to send poeple into the bush with two strikes against them, as I see it. Some of the errors, in my view, are not of particular concern. For example the route off the ridge on Parks Peak down to Barlow NOT being included. Well not such a big deal really. For years there was an orange marker the only identifier of what was then a very rough track down, now there is a sign there I believe. My point being it is not going to interupt anyones plans other than discovering a track down to the river far before Parks Peak hut.
There is also reference to a track from Iron Gate to Triangle going up into the bush, then down to the river and up to Triangle being incorrect. I have to write that is actually very correct. One goes upriver to the first creek, then up a marked rough track up, then up and over a steep spur back down to the river. Then up river 20 minutes or so to Triangle. Up river all the way takes one into gorge territory I would not want to get into, and reporting a track that is correct as being wrong is also not good information sharing.
Two possible errors that would concern me is a track in the Ikwatea area as being maintained when it is not, and has not been in years. That is perhaps some of the more remote and rough areas in the park, very bluffy, and the river with a few very large water falls. Going into such terrain thinking one will find a track, and not, and perhaps not having the skills, or equipment to cope is danger. Again I know people should be responsible for such things, but we know at times they simply are not.
The other big concern I see is calling the route from Sunrise to Top Maropea a track. It is not a track. My concern there is the many many groups of school, clubs, tourists, ect, that tramp up to Sunrise and generally venture no further. Looking on a map and seeing a nice solid line leading from Sunrise to Top Maropea I feel could easily lead to a false sense of security. To be sure, on a nice day it would present little problem, and be one of the most enjoyable hour plus high walks in the Ruahine, if not the North Island. But as someone who has crossed that saddle 30 plus times I know that rare days are fine there, and on the wrong day visibility can be zero, and the wind deadly. Many times I have waited it out an extra day at Top Maropea to cross the saddle, or vice versa at Sunrise.
In any case, best to get the maps corrected as quickly as is possible. Myself, well when I get back to it, I have many old haunts to visit and I think my old maps here will serve well for a bit yet. But if I were to venture into new terrain I will get a new map, check with DOC, and most important find out from either people I know whom have been there, or can direct to me someone, and get the real dope as it were. Happy tramping Mike.
Cheers,
Robb

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